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• American Classic TRANS-AM: October 12, 2012

[Revengel]

Just decided to hop around for a bit last night.

We could do this as a 'Tuneless' race but be forwarned - you'll have to re-set the tranny on the black Ford GT. 

Bought one fresh out of the dealership, took it to the track and the track marshalls were all "We don't serve your kind here"  and I'm all "Why?  Because it's BLACK???" and they're all "Settle down Mister Sharpton!"  and there was much of the cussin'.  CNN was on the scene, Spike Lee was going to make a movie, Huckabee did a segment on it...it was a whole mess.

Then I went through all the settings and found the problem.

Moral of the story:  Don't put the Race in Racetrack.

[dlrws6]

I've decided to go with the Viper #51. It seems to fit my driving style the best and seem to pretty much be ready to go stock. Not to mention I think the GTLM is going to get a little harry to drive as the tires wear down.

[DudeTuna]

I'm ready to start looking at cars. Just to clarify, this is a stock/no tuning gig?

[RickS95]

I'm ready to start looking at cars. Just to clarify, this is a stock/no tuning gig?

I may not have read as much as I should have, but I understand it to be you can tune, you just can't add parts to your car...at least that's what I did in the old Corvette in the last race...no parts added, just adjusted the parts that came with the car.

[RickS95]

If we could get some racing specs, that would be great.  My broken in GT LM Test Car came in at 645 PP fully broken in.  I took the engine down to 98.4% to hit 643, but couldn't remember if that car was supposed to be at 641.  Also, the tuning v. no tuning thing.  We've still got over a month to go, so no hurries, but I got bored tonight listening to my 8-year old read his science book to me so I took out the big Ford for a few laps. 

[Wolfpack987]

Rick your line of thinking is correct.  It would appear that my PP figures are not for cars fully broken in.  All of these cars will be like the Corvette Z06 from the last race, that being you can adjust all the settings as you see fit.  But you cannot increase horsepower or reduce weight (which I don't think is possible anyway).  So if broken in these cars are up to 645 PP, so be it that will be the limit for the race.

That make sense to everyone?


We are going to use option C, just to refresh anyone's memory:

C) new cars (Viper, GT, Corvette), same track, shorter race (90 min) on RS tires

I haven't seen anyone object to the November 30th race date, right?

current sign ups:

Revengel - Ford GT LM Test Car
dlrws6 - #51 Viper ORECA race car
RickS95 - Ford GT LM Test Car

I haven't done enough testing to decide yet but right now it's between the Viper or GT b/c I like the way they sound

[RickS95]

Just a head's up here, I've only driven the one car (the GT LM Test Car).  I'm still in the testing stages to see if that's the car I wanted (so I might want to change cars after driving them all).  I stopped running last night because I wasn't sure what the specs were going to be so tonight I'll run some more laps, hopefully in more than one car.

For what it's worth, the Test Car at 643 is stupid fast and handles very well on a thrown together tune.  Granted, I only ran a couple laps, but that car is planted throughout the course.  I'll be curious to see how well the ass end stays in the back as the tires start to wear.

All that said, if it turns out everyone is picking the same car, I'd be happy to be a guinea pig and drive something else so there's a variety on the track.

[Wolfpack987]

yeah car choice can change!

In some quick driving of the Viper I felt like that car had tremendous front end grip!

[RickS95]

I didn't get in an much seat time as I would have liked, but I've now driven the Corvette, the Ford and the Viper for a handful of laps just to get some early impressions. 

I went out in the Ford the other night.  Crazy fast and feels planted most of the time.  However, they put the engine in the wrong place and I'm not yet sold on how that car will run as the tires start to go.  Even with fresh tires, you can feel the butt wanting to come around when you lift approaching a turn.  Will that get worse when half the tire is gone?  Will it make tire wear uneven?  Can you even drive the car with less than fresh tires?  I'm not sure.

The Corvette is easily the best handling car of the three.  The bus stop is no match for that car.  I can't recall anything handling like this car through that series of turns.  Lift and brake to 120 MPH, keep just enough throttle that the revs stay put midway thru the bus stop and as you approach the right-left chicaney thing on exit, bury the hammer and hold on.  It really turns the bus stop into just another corner.  Unfortunately, it's the worst sounding car of the bunch.  Not sure I could take it for 90 minutes.

I drove the Viper last.  Not sure why, and I didn't spend any time looking, but I only got 642 out of it.  Regardless, it too handles well...really well.  I could take the infield faster in the Viper than either other car, but it's simply not as fast as the other two.  It's very stable thru the bus stop, but I'm approaching the turn a few MPH slower, I run thru the bus stop a few MPH slower, I exit the same, but I'm down several MPH at the start/finish.  As someone mentioned, it's got amazing front end grip.  The question:  if the rear tires wear a little quicker, late in the life of the tires the front is going to continue grabbing and the back end is going to start to slide out. 

The Ford is the fastest car, but you might be risking it because it's mid-engine and the rear tires may pay the front tires a visit at an inopportune time.  The Corvette is the easiest to drive and the second fastest.  But God does it sound like shit.  In the right hands, the Viper could probably outrun the Corvette but running side by side, the Corvette will catch the Viper at the start/finish.

Over the next few days, I'll hope to put some miles on each car and see what happens with tire wear and fuel usage.

[Wolfpack987]

Thanks for doing this legwork Rick!

[RickS95]

Is there a PP limit?  I mentioned I could only get to 642 in the Viper, but I could probably do an engine refresh and get to 643.  My Corvette maxed at 643, but the Ford hit 645.  Will the limit be 643 or just whatever the car makes stock (meaning the Ford get an extra couple)?

[Wolfpack987]

For now lets assume that they can vary a few PP among them.  If it looks like the Ford GT has an advantage then we'll knock it back 2-3 PP.

[RickS95]

I was bored this morning so I took the fast Ford out to DRC to see what kind of tire wear could be expected.  A week or so ago I ran a few laps and saw mid-1:38s.  I thought I would pace myself today to see what would be realistic.  I ran my out lap and then my first timed lap was 1:41.1.  I was pissed that in a week I'd fallen off that much so I pushed that hog around the track. 

After a couple laps I got back down to middle 38s and continued to drive it like I stole it.  On the 12rd lap, I could feel the back end starting to lighten, but generally speaking you could run the car at 9 tenths (only in turn one was there a problem and I think if you trail brake better than me--which everyone does--it would help). 

Once I got past the first turn, the car was still fairly stable on the laps after 12.  The only other spot where there was some entertainment came when exiting the infield.  I'm doing some coasting through that turn and in the MR cars I do typically get some lift off oversteer.  But it could be managed.

I died a tragic death on the 15rd lap (twice) but I was still pushing pretty good and I think I was still seeing low 1:41s.  Lap 16 was fairly hairy and I pitted then.  Not sure I've got the best set up on the car for putting laps on it because where the rears were wearing pretty good, I believe the fronts could easily go 40 laps.  Seriously, I had maybe 60% of the fronts left.

In remembering I drove the car like it was a rental, I think at steady 1:40 laps it'll go 18 laps or more (I think taking out some aero will help) before tragedy strikes.  I went with full aero, but cut the power down to keep it at 643.  Over a number of large laps I'm not sure how the Ford compares to the other cars, but for one lap or even ten, I don't think the Viper or Vette can come close to it. 

I hope to run the other two cars to see what kind of distance I can get out of them.  One other note, the car uses the same amount of fuel as the old Corvette from the previous enduro.

[Wolfpack987]

Thanks for the info.  You're doing us all a great service 

[AgentWD40_FL]

Thanks for the info.  You're doing us all a great service 

Yes, I thought so too .... very constructive.