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  • Leaf's RenaultSports Cup: May 01, 2013
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Author Topic: Renault Cup  (Read 24509 times)

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Brindle

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #330 on: June 06, 2013, 06:02:51 PM »

My ONLY advice to fix this is brake EARLIER!  Feldynn's fix of dropping a gear to get the turn in should have given it away...  He dropped a gear to assist in slowing down, keeping weight on the front tires.

That's sort of the thing Fried, I wasn't so much dropping a gear to assist in slowing down (at least not on purpose :)) but more because it seemed to affect the rotation of the car.  I could slow down and take a corner in 3rd gear at lower revs but the car would feel a bit pushy, if I dropped down to 2nd gear with high revs but at the same speed (give or take a couple of MPH) it went from a little pushing at the front to a little shoving from the back and made the car rotate that much easier.

That's kind of what got me guessing it might be something in my LSD setting, so the torque at higher RPM in the lower gear simply made the car turn better at mostly the same speed with the setup I had?

You may not have been using it to slow down, but it was slowing you down.  I do the exact same thing you described, to save my ass from a blown corner.  Drop a gear to rotate the car, (caused by engine braking) then immediately go back up to the proper gear and continue on.  Only problem is, speed is scrubbed and time is lost through each shift leading to an overall slower speed at the end of the straight.  For comparison, I was running a 12/31/9 LSD. 


Good advice Brindle.

What's everybody's approach to the tight S chicane before the right hander that leads to the banked oval section? Initially I was trying to late apex the first corner by going wide left and then arcing it along the right side of the first turn so that I had the most space for the left hander. But this seemed slow. So what I started doing was keeping left still but then trail braking into the first corner (braking late and turning at the same time) to get to the same point on the right side of turn 1 quicker. This caused me a few spins when the tires were getting worn. But in general, I felt a bit faster doing this. I would try to get my right tires on the rumble strip on the backside of the first turn and begin rolling on the power through the left hand turn opening onto the short straight.

If there's a better way to do this, please let me know. Seemed like some of you were way faster in this section that I was.

In my opinion, this is a multi compromise corner.  First, you have the right idea of car position, but don't forget about the distance traveled running an outside line.  Trail braking IS a must everywhere at this track, but especially for the T1 of the esses.  The whole esses setup begins for me at the entrance to the left hander before the esses.  Coming off the left, I would only aim to go 3/4 towards the outside before T1 of the esses.  Late apex entry, but you only aim to hit the center (not full right) of the track before T2 of the esses (shorter way around).  T2 is almost a normal apex, as you are already half way there.  Careful with the gas for exit of T2 you are shifting weight from one side to another pretty quickly here, so the car should naturally turn to loose for exit, so prepare for it (egg on the pedal).

 

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GoesTuna11

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #331 on: June 06, 2013, 09:36:31 PM »

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Feldynn

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #332 on: June 06, 2013, 11:25:45 PM »

Hmm maybe it was scrubbing off a bit more speed than I think it was then, it did just occur to me too that my gears might have been a bit off since I don't really spend any time setting them up beyond the top speed so I was ending with odd shift points mid corner where you'd probably go through in one gear?  

Settings wise this is what I'm using:

Suspension:   F      /     R
Ride Height    0      /     0
Springs         8.0   /     10.8
Damp Ext.     8      /     8
Damp Comp.  6      /     6
Anti-roll bar   6      /     6

Wheels:        F      /     R
Camber        2.0    /     2.5
Toe             0.00  /     0.15

LSD:
Initial   9
Accel.  27
Decel.  18

That's what I'm running using a wheel, though I also right foot brake too so that probably has adverse effects on my driving / tuning compared to others :D.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 11:31:12 PM by Feldynn »
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Brindle

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #333 on: June 07, 2013, 05:11:35 AM »

Here's what I used for Indy...

 

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LastLeafFan

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #334 on: June 07, 2013, 07:54:06 AM »

Updated the OP. Please make your changes to weight before next week.

This is getting really complicated and I may have made a mistake here or there but I think I'm OK so far.

We need a full field next week, it makes life much easier.

Great work with the sharing guys, maybe with some practice we will have a great race next week. Lots of wall humping I'm guessing. If we can just make it through the 1rd lap I think we will be good.

Some separation with the teams now but still a race for 2nd and up. Keep in mind that the individual points is just to help with the 2 throw away's at the end.
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MX5#98

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #335 on: June 07, 2013, 09:10:26 AM »

Thanks for sharing Feldyn and Brindle. I'll look at those tonight.
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Feldynn

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #336 on: June 07, 2013, 10:24:28 AM »

Couple of brief lap times for the impending Rome Reverse race next week, using the same setup I posted (not sure what my top speed was set to) I managed a 1'12.9xx best lap but could get back down under the low 1'14s after that when Soks, Grumpy and I ran a few quick ones after Wednesday's race.
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MX5#98

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #337 on: June 07, 2013, 03:47:12 PM »

Here's what I used for Indy...

 

Ok, here's another question ... why the negative toe?
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AgentWD40_FL

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #338 on: June 07, 2013, 04:22:50 PM »

For me and my driving style, most any car I tune has some degree of negative tow. It helps me zip through corners.
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Brindle

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #339 on: June 08, 2013, 09:04:57 AM »

As far as I understand the game, (at least for me) is a - toe number is toe out and + is in.  I almost always use some amount of toe out in the front.  it does 2 things...  It can assist in turn in, as the inside wheel is already pointing in the direction of the turn.  2, it helps dull the response of the front end on corner exit.  This is particularly helpful in controlling oversteer, as the front will be less responsive (only slightly of course).

Rear to is purely to help the car rotate -x or not +x.  If the car is loose on throttle, adding +x toe will calm that down.  Tight on exit, adding -x toe will loosen the car on throttle. 
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MX5#98

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #340 on: June 08, 2013, 10:00:59 AM »

As far as I understand the game, (at least for me) is a - toe number is toe out and + is in.  I almost always use some amount of toe out in the front.  it does 2 things...  It can assist in turn in, as the inside wheel is already pointing in the direction of the turn.  2, it helps dull the response of the front end on corner exit.  This is particularly helpful in controlling oversteer, as the front will be less responsive (only slightly of course).

Rear to is purely to help the car rotate -x or not +x.  If the car is loose on throttle, adding +x toe will calm that down.  Tight on exit, adding -x toe will loosen the car on throttle.  

Ok, good explanation. I guess what confuses me is that, with positive camel toe, the outside tire is pointing more in the direction of the turn. And the outside tire will have more force applied to it due to weight transfer. So I typically give just a hair of toe (this is starting to sound silly) on the front to help it corner. Don't understand why having the inside tire pointed in the direction of the turn matters much at all. In my Miata, it's not uncommon for my inside tire to come completely off the ground under hard braking and cornering.

Camel Toe


Hair of Toe
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 10:05:14 AM by MX5#98 »
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Feldynn

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #341 on: June 08, 2013, 10:24:16 AM »

Is she running positive or negative camel toe?  I've looked and looked but I just can't figure it out :D.
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GoesTuna11

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #342 on: June 08, 2013, 10:30:28 AM »

As far as I understand the game, (at least for me) is a - toe number is toe out and + is in.  I almost always use some amount of toe out in the front.  it does 2 things...  It can assist in turn in, as the inside wheel is already pointing in the direction of the turn.  2, it helps dull the response of the front end on corner exit.  This is particularly helpful in controlling oversteer, as the front will be less responsive (only slightly of course).

Rear to is purely to help the car rotate -x or not +x.  If the car is loose on throttle, adding +x toe will calm that down.  Tight on exit, adding -x toe will loosen the car on throttle.  

Ok, good explanation. I guess what confuses me is that, with positive camel toe, the outside tire is pointing more in the direction of the turn. And the outside tire will have more force applied to it due to weight transfer. So I typically give just a hair of toe (this is starting to sound silly) on the front to help it corner. Don't understand why having the inside tire pointed in the direction of the turn matters much at all. In my Miata, it's not uncommon for my inside tire to come completely off the ground under hard braking and cornering.

Camel Toe


Hair of Toe


That's why it only works for initial turn in.  Once the weight shifts to the outer tires, the camel toe on the inside tire doesn't matter as much.
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MX5#98

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #343 on: June 08, 2013, 11:02:23 AM »

Is she running positive or negative camel toe?  I've looked and looked but I just can't figure it out :D.

I'm positive that's camel toe.   ;)
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Feldynn

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Re: Renault Cup
« Reply #344 on: June 08, 2013, 12:53:56 PM »


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