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• Leaf's RenaultSports Cup: May 01, 2013

[Brindle]

I think the key word is Turn-in and not Breaking zone.  Ever heard of the term
"out-break someone"?  Can't do that if you give up BEFORE a breaking zone.  I think one is allowed up until Turn-in to get the overtake needed.  If you don't, make sure you get out of the line, because it is NOT yours to take.

[AgentWD40_FL]

There was a race quite awhile ago with Turbo (I think) at DF or Trial Mountain, and more recently with Baked at Autumn Ring that we ran a lap or two or three side by side in some real close, EXCITING, racing. Sure, you could probably look at those laps and point fingers at whom had ownership on any one of the corners ... and whom should have backed off.  But the point here is, is that if your paying attention and making adjustments to your braking points and race lines, you can produce highlight reel clips from corner to corner to corner.

All it takes is practice in doing it, which we dont purposely do.  So when a couple of cars do get in that situation, the odds are highly in favor of bad things happening.

Am I guilty of screwing it up?  Sure am .... most notable with Turbo at Autumn Ring a few weeks ago.  My car had a long nose (which always seems to jump up and bite me at the worst time), and i caught his rear quarter and sent him very hard to the wall. He had every right to be pissed at me, and might still be. 

I'm still learning whom I can do this with, and whom I can't. Some tuna's simply dont like it.  I'm certainly not perfect at it all the time, but it is something I try to practice at to be better. Theres nothing like it when it works and extremely exciting for both racers ... but you've got to be willing to give up something to make it all happen. I may 'own' a corner, but if I see you there, I'll give you the room.  I want you to race me and I'd like to think that you want me to race you too.  The key is knowing your limitations, and the limitations of the particular car.  To learn those things ... it takes practice.  So, lets practice it.  Side by side, bumper to bumper, love tap to love tap .... thats the excitment of racing.

[MX5#98]

As for blue flags, if you are trying to prevent people from lapping you by running defensive lines, you are not doing yourself any favours.  If you are running side by side in the corners with someone lapping you, you are not doing yourself any favours.  Both cases, you are slowing yourself down and the other car.  However, I don't see a problem with a lapped car running their optimal line trying to catch up.  But you don't want to ruin the race of a car that has lapped you by taking them out. my

Glad you said that. I was a bit worried that I held Feldyn and Turbo up in this race. I don't feel like I took defensive lines. But I sure as heck wasn't letting up. Feldyn and I had some good laps together out there. And then Turbo and I did the same. It was quite fun. There were a few times where it was really a close call. I had one or two of those with Feldyn, and eventually went wide to let him by. Same with Turbo. But I'm glad you said that above because, I sure as heck wasn't hanging up my driving shoes. I wanted to catch Leaf and we had a lot of laps left.

[MX5#98]

There was a race quite awhile ago with Turbo (I think) at DF or Trial Mountain, and more recently with Baked at Autumn Ring that we ran a lap or two or three side by side in some real close, EXCITING, racing. Sure, you could probably look at those laps and point fingers at whom had ownership on any one of the corners ... and whom should have backed off.  But the point here is, is that if your paying attention and making adjustments to your braking points and race lines, you can produce highlight reel clips from corner to corner to corner.

There was some of that last night. Those cars didn't want to turn, so I found myself intentionally drifting that Lambo around many of the corners. I would induce a little oversteer and then blip the throttle. The backend would come around and then I would lift and pray grip would return. Then I'd be on the gas again. There were several times that I had someone on my left and someone on my right while doing this. In one case GodZilla (I thought we defeated him in the last movie) drifts past me wide, I lift and drift past him on the inside. I just started laughing at how crazy it was. Good times.

[MX5#98]

I think the key word is Turn-in and not Breaking zone.  Ever heard of the term
"out-break someone"?  Can't do that if you give up BEFORE a breaking zone.  I think one is allowed up until Turn-in to get the overtake needed.  If you don't, make sure you get out of the line, because it is NOT yours to take.

Ok, so first of all, I think it's interesting that there are some many interpretations of this. But what I think is common is that we all respect each other and try to avoid contact. So it still works.

Here's how I interpret this. If I'm trying to out-brake someone and I haven't gotten wheel to wheel with them beforehand, I see it as my duty to avoid contact. To me, these rules simply point out whose at fault. It's kind of like holding in football. Everyone does it, just don't get caught. So if I dive into a corner and try to overtake this way, it's my job to avoid contact. That might mean putting myself into the wall if I misjudged the braking distance (did that one last night, lol). If you pull it off and it's clean, you're a hero. If you make contact and punt the overtaken vehicle into the grandstands, well .... I would also expect that if you try to out-brake someone and don't do it cleanly that you give the position back to the car you hit, imho.

[BakedTuna]

Some people brake much earlier and you can outbrake them on every turn just because of the two differing braking pooints you both have. Everyone does not have the same comfort level in asking for certain performance out of their car.

[MX5#98]

Some people brake much earlier and you can outbrake them on every turn just because of the two differing braking pooints you both have. Everyone does not have the same comfort level in asking for certain performance out of their car.

The problem is ... those same people, the ones that brake early, are typically on the gas sooner as a result. That's why it's always best to follow a car you are overtaking for a few corners and figure out their style. With me for example, I'm easy to out brake as I tend to brake early. But if you get side by side with me in the corner, I'm going to be on the gas through the track out. So I pray you haven't carried too much speed to hold your line. Otherwise the early braker usually pays the price.   

[AgentWD40_FL]

What we are all talking about is limitations.  Knowing and identifying your limitations and the cars limitations is key in all situations.  Living by the hope and pray of corner to corner is risky for everyone. Learning to control yourself, the car, and your 360 degree surroundings all at the same time takes practice and 100% attention.  This why I dont race past 9:45 - 10:00pm ... I'm so tired that I'm a danger to everyone on the track

[Wolfpack987]

I love this conversation we have going here.  But first I want to address Charlie's post about his mishap on lap 19.  I hope you didn't interpret my comments as anger or hostility in any way.  Things happen and I know you weren't mic'd so you couldn't give me a warning.  It's all racing, no problems here at all  

As to contact and fighting for position:
-given our lack of peripheral vision I always try to leave a good space cushion between me and another car if I think we're side by side in a turn.
-if I outbrake someone and set up the turn properly I can usually grab the inside line but am guilty of pushing out from understeer and sometimes making contact with the car next to me.  I've been working on doing this less, as I feel like a jackass that should know better after the fact
-If I'm diving into a turn with another car on my inside, if he's overlapping with me to around 1/3-1/2 a car length I usually concede the turn.  If he's just behind me then I take the inside track and shut him down.  If he's just barely overlapping me then I'll usually stay on the outside of the turn to accommodate his line and try to avoid any contact but also not give up any ground (which can depend given the turn type).
-I know I'm notoriously bad about this (and probably have a reputation) but I KNOW I'm bad about rear ending people coming into a turn sometimes.  Its usually just a light tap, but sometimes it sends people off their line.  If that happens I ALWAYS pull back to keep them in front of me.  I'm truly sorry about that and believe me when I say that I'm conscientiously working on improving that (always).

-FINALLY, when encountering lapped traffic (or just competitors driving off pace) the last thing I want for is them to pull over and let me by or concede to me (without a fight) the best driving line.  It's a RACE!  And just because you're not on the lead lap doesn't mean I've got to right to deprive you of doing your best.  Lapped traffic should maintain their line and drive to the best of their ability.  It's the responsibility of the leaders to pass you.  That is part of what racing is all about, and always has been. 

Hope that post made sense to everyone

[Feldynn]

Something I really enjoyed from that last race that may or may not be partially or entirely relevant or not to the discussion at hand was the battles I had with Turbo.  We had some good side by side racing and there was also some nice "give and take" moments too where we'd give eachother a corner and then maybe take back the next one or get set up for an overtake further down the road, basically it was good friendly back and forth racing.

I've had similar racing experiences many times with many others here too, be it for a podium spot or a race for last place .

[MX5#98]

Something I really enjoyed from that last race that may or may not be partially or entirely relevant or not to the discussion at hand was the battles I had with Turbo.  We had some good side by side racing and there was also some nice "give and take" moments too where we'd give eachother a corner and then maybe take back the next one or get set up for an overtake further down the road, basically it was good friendly back and forth racing.

I've had similar racing experiences many times with many others here too, be it for a podium spot or a race for last place .

I watched a lot of you two going at it. I would characterize that as two teammates working together perfectly to maximize your team score. It was truly beautiful to watch. Some of the passes of non-teammates were more aggressive, certainly. But the two of you worked extremely well as a team. Formidable is how I'd put it.

[MX5#98]

-FINALLY, when encountering lapped traffic (or just competitors driving off pace) the last thing I want for is them to pull over and let me by or concede to me (without a fight) the best driving line.  It's a RACE!  And just because you're not on the lead lap doesn't mean I've got to right to deprive you of doing your best.  Lapped traffic should maintain their line and drive to the best of their ability.  It's the responsibility of the leaders to pass you.  That is part of what racing is all about, and always has been. 

    

[Feldynn]

Something I really enjoyed from that last race that may or may not be partially or entirely relevant or not to the discussion at hand was the battles I had with Turbo.  We had some good side by side racing and there was also some nice "give and take" moments too where we'd give eachother a corner and then maybe take back the next one or get set up for an overtake further down the road, basically it was good friendly back and forth racing.

I've had similar racing experiences many times with many others here too, be it for a podium spot or a race for last place .

I watched a lot of you two going at it. I would characterize that as two teammates working together perfectly to maximize your team score. It was truly beautiful to watch. Some of the passes of non-teammates were more aggressive, certainly. But the two of you worked extremely well as a team. Formidable is how I'd put it.

Not inappropriately so, I hope?

Also I should like to go on record as saying there were absolutely no team orders in play in that race, no one told the Pepto Pit Crew to give Turbo less fuel in his car or anything like that, honest .

[CharlieTuna]

Howling at Wolfpack:  never took it personal; just wanted you and everyone to know I was truly sorry.  I was afraid to moe because I pictured myself being caught crossways and really :fucking up someone's race - which is something I live in constant fear of.  It's why I get so :fucking nervous when folks get near me.  If y'all ever watch the replays you'll see, when I :fuck up someone is usually very near.  Lap 19 was a rarity, I'm usually fine when by myself.  Just get nervous in a crowd except for two wide in curves, that's like driving to work and rarely causes me anxiety.

[MX5#98]

Not inappropriately so, I hope?

Well my teammate Charlie got buzzed pretty good on Lap 19. But Turbo already explained that he got distracted.