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Author Topic: Let's talk about Six, baby.  (Read 188576 times)

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MX5#98

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #390 on: June 18, 2013, 06:46:58 AM »

They are simply trying to maximize their sales of GT6. PD doesn't give a damn about the PS4. They want to sell product. And so, in case anyone was considering staying on GT5 until GT7 comes out, they are saying ... get ready for a long wait. So put your money down now.

Then, when they've made enough money and sales start to tail off ... hey, it's time for a new version of GT7. And guess what ... this is REALLY the version we've wanted to release, taking advantage of all the hardware available on the PS4. Yada yada.

No big deal. It's business.
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EX_stream_tuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #391 on: June 18, 2013, 08:48:58 AM »

yea, I think it's their way of saying "we're not going to tell you that GT7 for the PS4 will be out by x year because that might undercut sales of our newest game".

they'll very likely begin on GTx for the PS4 immediately upon release of GT6.

then, if people completely stop playing GT6, they'll be more eapt to release the next iteration for the PS4 sooner so that they can stay in the game, so to speak.  If we keep playing it, that probably means that GT for the ps4 will be even better... because they'd have had more time to mess with the new hardware.

all the while, our experiences in GT6 will feed their knowledge of what to do with the next gen.
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Turbo-Tuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #392 on: June 18, 2013, 09:03:44 AM »

I was under the impression (can't remember why) that PD has already been working with the PS4. I question - even though it may not be very productive for current and immediate (soon) products - whether or not they're been working on two products at the same time. Or, just maybe, some of their development for GT6 is actually done in a way that could be used for 'GT7' on PS4. I know they're different systems, but Project Cars is doing it, in a manner of speaking... PC -> PS.

Well, enough of my bullshit speculation for now. I guess some of us are in agreement then: Once PS4 is released, 'GT7' probably won't appear as soon as some would like, though we suspect PD is ready to attack a new game to be ready for the PS3/GT6 decline. Which is fine. I'm still looking forward to GT6 and a summer fling with Nissan.
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DudeTuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #393 on: June 18, 2013, 09:11:26 AM »

"And in regards to the rendering engine to the game, what we’ve attempted in Gran Turismo 6 for the PS3 is to really bring in the graphics that is equivalent to the PS4. The features like the adaptive tessellation that we introduced in the trailer will be a feature that’s actually a next-generation type of rendering technology but there’s meaning in bringing that into the PS3."

Well, um, yeah... because adaptive tessellation is built into the graphic chips, so why wouldn't they use it?


"We’ll import what is required for racing in terms of social interactions."

As far as I remember, not all of the social aspects pegged for GT5 made it into that version, so they would just be catching up with what they already had planned earlier.


"Once the players have actually played [out] the game on the PS3 platform, that would be the timing when the next Gran Turismo would come out."

He repeated this in another interview, but this one left out a word which makes what he meant more clear.

Maybe I'm not paying attention to context, but I interpret this as implying that GT for PS4 won't be released for quite some time. We'll have been playing GT5 for 3 years when GT6 is supposed to be released. Even if 'playing it out' ended a year ago, I can't imagine PD having any urgency to release the next one for two years after GT6. (Except perhaps pressure from Sony)

I totally agree. It sounds like I may not have to purchase a PS4 for a few years.
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Feldynn

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #394 on: June 18, 2013, 09:22:15 AM »

Some thoughts from a big lengthy post I made over at the PSN forum that sort of relate to the discussion:

Part of what I think Kaz is doing with GT6 on the PS3 is laying the groundwork for what they're going to use on the PS4 version when the time comes.  Things like the new graphics engine with it's adaptive tessellation and the significantly more realistic physics engines I think should help make the jump to the new hardware much smoother when the time comes, and in some ways I think Kaz might have made a very smart and tactical move by sticking to the current gen hardware and not taking the easy route of jumping straight to the PS4.

I haven't read a great deal on Forza 5 (since I don't have an xbox so generally don't pay that much attention to the games) but one thing that did stick out to me is that it will have no day / night time change, considering it's coming out on the next gen console you'd think a feature like that would be available by default.  I think that T10 jumped to the new console too soon (or perhaps were incentivized to go there by MS) and are rushing to get F5 out as a launch title without the proper development time, I'm glad Kaz and PD don't appear to be in that same situation with the PS4.

In some ways I can kind of see the first PS4 version of GT only being a couple of years away but also not being that much different from GT6, not in a bad way but I think that a lot of what they're doing now will cross over to the PS4 more so than have to be completely redesigned / developed.  If the physics are that good now they probably won't need much extra development, the GT6 graphics engine should be a good base for the PS4 (isn't adaptive tessellation technology built right into the graphics hardware now?) and I imagine they're already scanning in way more data for cars / tracks than they can use on the PS3 so they'll be very well prepared when the time is right.

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CharlieTuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #395 on: June 18, 2013, 09:50:14 AM »

I think KY alluded to the fact that scanning is being done to PS4 type standards (probably so they can migrate easier).
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EX_stream_tuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #396 on: June 18, 2013, 01:44:05 PM »

that all fits with what I've been saying for a while about car scanning -- that they scan to the umteen-millionth degree of detail, store all that data, and then downscale it for whatever platform they are currently working on.

current tech is pretty amazing at capturing detail, and I'm not so sure that in a couple years, the tech will be 10x more accurate, for instance, requiring PD to re-scan everything they ever touched.

It used to be that way, but not any longer.  We're  getting into the era of not being able to add more polygons to a shape because it's already basically perfectly curvy or round when appropriate.

Heck, I thought the GT4 wireframes for the cars were impressive, and now look at it!  Gt6 looks even better, so I think they will just downscale their massive scans of cars slightly less for the PS4 version and save time and money.

Regarding how long... if we get 2 years out of GT6 I don't think that's too short or too long.  What other games (other than GT) do you really play for a solid 2 years?
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MasterGT

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #397 on: June 18, 2013, 04:06:59 PM »

For some cars, whatever historical record they have of the car, that's it. The car doesn't exist any more, or at least not in the same form that we would recognise it. They have to make it the best that they can now, so that they can always use it, if needed or wanted. There will be no going back for a second chance.
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CharlieTuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #398 on: June 18, 2013, 05:50:44 PM »

4K editing tools are on the horizon but we're not there yet.  We can barely edit 2K.  Which is why tessallation is so important.  As we move up the scale to 2K and 4K this will allow for even greater (and far better) use of displacement mapping.  If we do ever make it to well beyond that (16K, 33K, etc...) we should be able to trick our brain into seeing "3D" without glasses or special "stereo" cameras.





:huh   Wonder if that's why folks (tuna) didn't seem to care so much for "After Earth".  Though shot in 4K, it is a buttload of CGI that could only be editing in HD.  (That's right, 2K editing tools aren't there yet either though much closer than 4K.)  But watch it again and take a look at the pebbles in the drive river bed.  You can see thousands of them, distinctly...  You can see grey stubble on Will Smith.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 05:59:55 PM by CharlieTuna »
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Wiz

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #399 on: June 18, 2013, 06:53:01 PM »

"Bewbsgatti Veyron"

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Feldynn

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #400 on: June 18, 2013, 08:14:14 PM »

"Bewbsgatti Veyron"



And we don't even have a livery editor yet, I swear kids today :P
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EX_stream_tuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #401 on: June 19, 2013, 08:19:11 AM »

4K editing tools are on the horizon but we're not there yet.  We can barely edit 2K.  Which is why tessallation is so important.  As we move up the scale to 2K and 4K this will allow for even greater (and far better) use of displacement mapping.  If we do ever make it to well beyond that (16K, 33K, etc...) we should be able to trick our brain into seeing "3D" without glasses or special "stereo" cameras.

  Wonder if that's why folks (tuna) didn't seem to care so much for "After Earth".  Though shot in 4K, it is a buttload of CGI that could only be editing in HD.  (That's right, 2K editing tools aren't there yet either though much closer than 4K.)  But watch it again and take a look at the pebbles in the drive river bed.  You can see thousands of them, distinctly...  You can see grey stubble on Will Smith.

interesting... I can't say I understood all of it, but still.

Here's my thought about the current 3D models of the cars being almost as good as possible.  That when you zoom in currently in GT5 you don't hardly ever see polygons, you soon curves.  That means the detail is almost as high as it needs to go IMO.  Are they going to add 10x the detail and then give us not only a camera lense to zoom in with, but a microscope to look at specs of dirt?

And, when the car is in motion, should we really expect to see much more detail than we already see in GT5?

Now, great strides have been made in lighting and with tesselation in GT6.  I think that is what is going to make it look more realistic, but theactual shape of the car isn't going to be much more complex on most cars. (standards not withstanding)

Won't we soon be to a point where if the tech exists to make a car with 2 trillion polygons, that we might ask "so what?  Why do we need that?"

Instead, eventually, and possibly on the PS4, I'd expect the scale and scope of games to increase as the complexity of the game's assets reaches terminal velocity. Surely, GT7 on the PS4 will have nicer looking cars, but not by leaps and bounds, I suspect.  We mayh instead get twice as many cars on the track at once, and much more detailed crowds, blades of grass, dirt that kicks up (not just sprites but actual particles) and grass/sand/gravel that gets deep grooves dug into it as we drive over it, intentionally or unintentionally.  You might see an airplane fly by and be able to zoom in with photo mode and get stunning detail.

In other words, I suspect games will soon come to a point that they can't actually look any better, but they will be bigger games with more content and larger areas to explore and more detail in every single area you look at.  dirt, snow, and weather will not simply be an "effect" , but part of the physical world in the game.  You step on some snow?  It doesn't simply put a temporary footpring in it, but actually compresses it as if it were real snow.

I've predicted for a long time that one day people may get bored with all the awesome graphics of games, because they've made them look so real.  Gamers who actually do go outside will remark "Wow, look at how detailed the world actually is!.  Awesome graphics!"  and actually do something productive with their lives...
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 08:21:19 AM by Ex-Xboxfan »
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MasterGT

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #402 on: June 20, 2013, 09:40:53 AM »

Need and want are two different things. It seems PD's want to always show greater graphic detail doesn't jive with our need for greater host controls, for example. So long as the car ahead of me looks a bit better than a brick, I am OK with that. (Photo Mode is a different storey.) Hell, most of the time a car is so far ahead of me that it may as well be a brick anyway.

As for an environment that actually deforms, there was an early arcade racing game revived on the PS3 (it's name escapes me...) that had that feature. Instead of just leaving tires marks in the snow, it depressed under the tires. The whole driving area was composed of something like octagons that changed their height.
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EX_stream_tuna

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #403 on: June 20, 2013, 01:04:52 PM »

something like that would be really cool for rally in future GT games, or just racing in general.
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MasterGT

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Re: Let's talk about Six, baby.
« Reply #404 on: June 20, 2013, 01:39:24 PM »

The game I was thinking of was SEGA Rally/PS3, but Motorstorm also has environmental deformation, although I don't know a lot about that game.
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