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[DudeTuna]

  And, I cannot drift to save my friggin' life.

I went back and ran some of the coffee breaks I skipped over, last night. There's something up with those 2 drifts events. I was having trouble with them too, and didn't think I should've been. I did some drifting in single player Arcade, and had no trouble at all. 

Also, while we're on the drifting subject, until they do something about the tire noise, I don't see me doing a whole lot of it. I can't take that shit. Grip tire noise isn't too bad, but once you go beyond the grip level, the noise is just too much. I had my volume turned WAY down, but then you can't hear the engine. 

Grip is quiet i concur I have never been able to slide on porpoise anyway.

[GoesTuna11]

Also, is this a Mission Race where there are no car alterations? If it is I understand the frustration. I,m stuck at Silverstone with a GT R.

This is the very last S race.  It is a 750pp race and I was in a 680pp car.  In many ways it is pretty neat. 24hour time cycle with weather and pit stops.  When you come into the pits, you see some of the other crews already waiting for the other cars, some are running out to get ready for a car, if someone else pitted just before you, you can see the crew heading back into the garage carrying the old tires.  While 24 minutes is too short, it does give you the feeling that you are in a long race.

It might be interesting to try intermediates to see how fast they are but grip reduction is set to low apparently.  I didn't check but I was racing in the 24min of Nurburger on Racing Hards with 100% water on track.  It was slippery but not as brutal as you would expect.

The S races as a whole are kind of cool because pit strategies come into to play.

[GoesTuna11]

So I was online for a while last night. Many thanks to MastrGT for letting me join his event, that little Rocket is a fun car to race. I also ran with some Tunas for a while. And to top off the night, I dropped into Moose's room to see what those guys were up to.

It's kind of weird how the night transitioned for me. At first, I was super excited to be online with the new game and new physics. But race after race, my enthusiasm slowly waned. And at the end of the night I was left with the feeling that not much had changed in 4 years. I will say that I did like the qualifying procedure, although it threw me for a loop at the start not seeing the other cars on the track. But it was cool that it tells you where you currently stand as you are driving (and weird that it flashes the proximity alerts at you when you're by yourself on the track).

And for that reason, as I go up and down in my bipolar response to all things GT, today I'm feeling a bit bummed out. For years, I've wanted to see true spec racing in the game. I've wanted to simulate what those guys do around here on the weekends because I'm dying to do it for real someday. And having a simulator that allows me to pretend to race helps me get through the mid week doldrums. I even ran to iRacing for a while thinking that would be the ticket. And maybe it is. Maybe to experience a true racing simulation, you have to go completely the opposite direction and just deal with it. I don't know.

But I'm extremely frustrated right now. First of all, the one-make races ... why so few cars PD? What in the name of all that is holy prevents you from just displaying the same dealership car chooser and letting people choose a car from any that came with the game (not DLC)? What possible reason could you have for restricting it? Bimmer club wants to run Bimmers. Mazda club wants to run Mazdas. And they want to run specific cars. Why not allow them to do that? That's step one. Step two is realizing that in a one-make race, the cars from the dealer drive like ass. Allow everyone to tune the cars. I realize this is harder to work out. But it's doable. Then there's the racing liveries. I was hoping we could at least number the cars. But I guess that's not that big of a deal.

I keep coming back to the realization that this is not a racing simulator. I think I have to change my expectations. It's a driving simulator and a pretty good one. It's a car collecting game. And we can make it a racing simulator through communities like this using the same old techniques that we've used for years. It's just a shame that after all this time ... our racing options have not changed much, if at all.

End of rant. Better get back to work. I'm sure tomorrow I'll swing the other way and proclaim the game "nearly perfect" again. Meds. I need meds.

The game is typical PD.  Lots of things that are really cool and lots of things that make you wonder what the fuck they were thinking.  I've come to appreciate that PD is either unable or unwilling to make the game that I really want.  That is fine.  There is enough to like in this game that I will continue to play it but I probably won't be playing it as much as I did with GT5.  I've unlocked the S events and ran the glitch so that I have more cars than I will ever need.  Now I don't have to worry about money or finishing events or grinding and can play how I want to.

[Metal]

good lord that rocket car is a blast to drive. just turn off the hud and turn laps!

[Turbo-Tuna]

I'm with you doc. We don't have the exact same expectations or wants from PD/GT, but I think we end up at the same place.

It has its strengths and weaknesses. I'm glad to get a new set of toys after GT5 and prologue for so long. I'm sure I'll enjoy it as my only racing game, probably as much as I'd enjoy just about any other race game.

[GoesTuna11]

Wow the pp system is screwed up.  I guess that is no surprise.  I took that GT-R (shultz?) GT3 car pp609 or something to the 10 laps at Suzuka S class race against GT500 cars.  The first time, I tried Racing soft tires and blew through my first set after lap 3 so I had to pit twice.  I lost by over a minute.  I tried again with racing hard tires.  This time I only had to pit once but I still lost by over 30s.  I was wondering if I would have to break out the R18 but bringing a gun to a knife fight felt like cheating.  I decided to try a HSV at 600pp.  I ended up winning by over 30s.  That's an average of 6s a lap faster with less pp.

[Turbo-Tuna]

Definitely weird, doc. Also questionable, the Toyota 86 GT Race car (a near stock nurb race car) has less PP than the regular road going 86 GT. Same engine and weight, but with down force levels close to low end touring cars/race cars (BMW 320i for example). Man does that car feel gutless until you throw more HP in to it. (Or lighten it)

Also, I bought a brand new Miata (2007) and did oil change. 398 PP. Added flat floor. 416PP. I haven't tested it yet, but I really want to see how it drives with that one 18PP mod.

[no_affiliations]

No idea about the race cars, but the 86 pp rating could be due to acceleration and top speed potential  - as you said, it feels slow, and it's trying to push through whatever extra resistance it gets from all of that downforce (PD says they changed the way that works, didn't they?).  Could be one of those 'modifying it made it slower' things.   Just my $.02.  PP system is definitely a little goofy anyway, just hoping we can figure out how so we can use it properly.

Added the 'flat floor' to an fc rx7, haven't run comparative tests but it seems to work as advertised; seems like a large amount of PP though (added nearly 20 for me as well).

[MX5#98]

The game is typical PD.  Lots of things that are really cool and lots of things that make you wonder what the fuck they were thinking.  I've come to appreciate that PD is either unable or unwilling to make the game that I really want.  That is fine.  There is enough to like in this game that I will continue to play it but I probably won't be playing it as much as I did with GT5.  I've unlocked the S events and ran the glitch so that I have more cars than I will ever need.  Now I don't have to worry about money or finishing events or grinding and can play how I want to.

Agree. I need to adjust my expectations. But this takes an enormous amount of wind out of my sails for online racing. Maybe you were right ... maybe bailed on iRacing too soon. I really ... really expected GT to close the gap and give me a racing option that was more laid back and didn't require that I boot my Mac up into Windows. Plus you have to pay for cars and tracks and ... well everything. I really hoped that GT could do all of that and I wouldn't need a PC to enjoy sim racing.

We can make GT6 work. I'll try to keep a positive attitude about it. Lets see how long that lasts.   

[Turbo-Tuna]

No idea about the race cars, but the 86 pp rating could be due to acceleration and top speed potential  - as you said, it feels slow, and it's trying to push through whatever extra resistance it gets from all of that downforce (PD says they changed the way that works, didn't they?).  Could be one of those 'modifying it made it slower' things.   Just my $.02.  PP system is definitely a little goofy anyway, just hoping we can figure out how so we can use it properly.

Added the 'flat floor' to an fc rx7, haven't run comparative tests but it seems to work as advertised; seems like a large amount of PP though (added nearly 20 for me as well).

So does the straight line slowness of aero resistance outweigh the benefit of downforce? (rhetorical question)
I think adjusting downforce on a car doesn't affect PP. Anyone confirm?

[no_affiliations]

holy shit, confirmed PP is not affected by downforce.  added a rear wing to a non-wing having standard, gained rear downforce but no change in PP.  took anniversary edition gt-r gt3, changed to max and min d/f, no change in PP.  took gt-r to route x with maxed out trans.. 5th gear good for 200mph at minimum d/f, 184mph at max.  didn't play with it more than that. 

tires not mattering to PP is weird enough, but at least they can be regulated.  This just seems goofy to me.

[MX5#98]

PP has always been wonky to me. You're never going to be able to come up with an algorithm that gives you truly even cars with all the different configuration options ... not until you add spec racing. it's pointless.

I wonder if in GT6 you can limit a room to PP, hp and weight? I think if you did those three, you could come up with a handful of cars that could get close that would be fun to race one another. But it would be a lot of work to figure out the cars that work.

[Feldynn]

PP has always been wonky to me. You're never going to be able to come up with an algorithm that gives you truly even cars with all the different configuration options ... not until you add spec racing. it's pointless.

I wonder if in GT6 you can limit a room to PP, hp and weight? I think if you did those three, you could come up with a handful of cars that could get close that would be fun to race one another. But it would be a lot of work to figure out the cars that work.

I'm not 100% certain but I was tinkering around with online settings the other day and I "think" that you CAN now set all 3 things, needs to be confirmed though as my memory has more holes in it than a fisherman's net but I'm sort of sure it let me do that lol.  If it so then that should present a much more equal playing field for cars, being able to balance all 3 things will likely remove the advantage certain cars get in their respective similar groupings (such as the Integra vs. most other FF cars).

[RickS95]

PP has always been wonky to me. You're never going to be able to come up with an algorithm that gives you truly even cars with all the different configuration options ... not until you add spec racing. it's pointless.

I wonder if in GT6 you can limit a room to PP, hp and weight? I think if you did those three, you could come up with a handful of cars that could get close that would be fun to race one another. But it would be a lot of work to figure out the cars that work.

This is why I've always preferred non-tuning events with a one-model car.  We've always known about the go-to cars for a variety of PP.  That will probably never go away.  

[no_affiliations]

You can filter by any combination of PP, weight, power and drivetrain (in addition to tire limitation, disallowing tuning & nitrous).

OR you can filter by country or a group of up to 5 makes.

You were halfway there, PD.  Combining the old performance restrictions is a dramatic improvement; being able to limit car choices is a nice addition.  Not letting you do both seems needlessly, frustratingly limiting.  I hope this gets fixed eventually, so much potential..

Also, even in GT5 there were some great, balanced and diverse races.  It's a huge chore to find all of the cars that compete at a given level, but if you start with a car or concept in mind it's usually possible to build a balanced field around it.