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[Wolfpack987]

I haven't played GT6 yet, but this issue with tire squeal already sounds like it could be annoying.

FYI for some guys that haven't (IRL) been able to experience sliding a car around on high performance tires:  high performance tires don't squeal until you've really, REALLY made a mistake.  So if in the game Sport or Race tires are squealing at the slightest bit of under or over steer that's disappointing, because that's not realistic at all.

(before someone comments on my BRZ's tires squealing in the Youtube video I posted - those tires aren't high performance  )

The RS3's on my Miata squeal like the dickens but that's because I'm usually pushing the car to the limit and it's sliding on all four wheels. Sounds a lot like you hear in GT6. I realize as you get to softer compounds, this happens less. But the RS3 is a pretty dang soft tire.

Interesting.  My Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Specs were very quiet, and that tire is quite similar to the RS3.  I actually considered the RS3s but their shallow tread depth was a no go for me (since i use the tires for DD as well).

The reverse thing is annoying!  Hopefully we'll adjust.

[Revengel]

Had a quick second to post; wanted to give my 2 cents.

First, I was out of town over the weekend so I didn't pick the game up until Sunday. I've been on it whenever Velocity's been asleep and/or I've been done with work/family/house stuff. Oh, and was at the Caps game last night. That said I've been a busy beaver.

Tire noise - someone mentioned that it varies from tire to tire and I totally back this up. I started with the 15rd anniversary Split Window (my 1nd all time favorite) and noticed the front end dive and general looseness 7Cthe car. Actually I noticed what Rick started with - all the cars seem to be a bit more loose. I like it. The comfort tires squeal if I look at them. Sport softs . . . not so much.

Where I differ is on the front tires biting/plowing and the lack of rear wheel spin. Once I corrected my driving habits (I sometimes drive a car like I ride my bikes - late braking) to match 4 wheels and a more realistic approach I didn't have *as much* dive with the Sting Ray (C 2th), and I had no issues at all with the Stingray (C7st). I'm not a drifter so I didn't have much luck with a controlled tail slide . . . more of a power slide. Once I got into the Supercar festival I did use the Viper and it honestly impressed me. I expected it to be more unwieldy and it stayed planted with tons of power to spare. Granted the Enzo that was on my tail was walking me down on the straights, but that's what happens. When I took the Stingray (C7st) to Laguna I found the same thing - I love that freaking car.

On the mid-engine thing - Yes, I obsess. The only car I've bought is my 1nd-A all time favorite. Ferrari 288 GTO. Small aside - there's an error in this car. The dashboard Tach is mis-calibrated. I suspect someone missed a decimal point because it barely moves, but moves with the engine speed. You can't get that needle much past 1.

BOT - I find the Middies very different to drive depending on the car. I don't have an NSX but have tried the following with different results:

GTO: Needs to be managed and you have to pay attention, but it feels well balanced.
Elise: On the test around the turn I found that car easier for me to control than it was in GT5. It spins like a top so I could go into the apex late and the car would just rotate. Pour on the speed and you're good to go.
Stratos: Could. Not. Make. A. Turn. That booty was trying to get away from me by the first slight turn at Rome! Fast in a straight line but I'll have to come back to that one.
Huyara (or however you spell it): Holy Carp that's an awesome, powerful, balanced machine.
GT40 MK I: Low and planted, but I have to keep that tail in line. But there's not too much power back there vs. the "modern" Ford GT.

My early take is that this version is leaps ahead of where GT5 was/is. Not perfect but few things are. I expect to average 4 hours of sleep per night for a couple-few months.

Oh, and I'm glad the licenses are required again.

Also also, MOON BUGGY! How often can you do a barrel roll in a car at 15 mph?

Hope to be out there with you soon, but I have to get back to work.

[Wolfpack987]

Drove a stock 2006 S2000 last night (in GT), and I must say the handling of it in GT6 is way WAY better than how it was portrayed in GT5.  Much less tail happy and driveable (though not to say it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you did something stupid).  In my opinion the handling is considerably closer to real life.  However, I'm puzzled by their inaccuracies in other areas.  1) the redline is 500rpm too high (FC22 has a hard fuel cut at 8100rpm in real life).  2) the gear ratios are also way off (and would be even if the redline wasn't overly high); they are too short. 

Furthermore, why can't Gran Turismo properly (and by properly I mean...at all) model the sound of VTEC engagement!??!?!?     It's an easy thing to do, and would be applicable for over 25 Honda/Acura models.  WTF Kaz.

[RickS95]

I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage.  After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible.  I took it out for one of the International B series events. 

I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft.  In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic. 

The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life.  That said, it was still fairly close.  In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing.  In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking.  However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.

Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06.  I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much.  That's not realistic.  On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy.  Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out.  In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing. 

Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure.  So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.

[MX5#98]

I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage.  After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible.  I took it out for one of the International B series events. 

Great post. If you look at who they've partnered with, it's clear they've been working on the tire model and the suspension model mostly. Maybe in the next version they will spend some time modeling the stuff under the hood a bit better (torque steer, clutch improvements, engine sounds, etc).

MX

[EX_stream_tuna]

To clarify my stance a little, I really like the new tire sounds.  Massive improvement compared to GT5.  Probably some of the best tire sounds I've heard and I too like that the sound changes the harder you drive them.

My complaint is the volume of them.  They're just too damn loud in my opinion.  Knock the overall volume down by 20% or so and they'd be excellent.

making my way through this thread catching up...

I have posited this explanation for the tire noises on the other forum... In the end I agree it's probably a little too loud, but not much.

Consider this:  That when you take a car out and bang on it like we do in this game, you'd have mods done to your car or a perspective within the car that changes your overall impression of the mix of sounds.

If you owned a Fit in real life, for instance, you would never take it to the track.  There is no comparison for the game, as a result.

If you are driving from the interior view, you don't hear the tires as much, and some racers have commented taht the mix from that perspective is spot on, even comparing racing videos and sports broadcasts showing the similarities.  So, consider that the view a lot of us uses the majority of the time (bumper) would naturally cause you to hear a different mix of tires vs engine, being that the engine is covered by a hood, and the tires are direct to the recording device or your ears (imagine actually sitting on the hood lying down face forward with a controller in your hand... no really, it'll bring a smile to your face )

If you took any daily driver to the track, you'd probably have a tire better than the "Comfort" variety in GT6, thereby giving you more grip and less of a need to push the tire to its limit where it is the loudest.

If you owned a civic IRL and took it to the track, first you probably wouldn't push it this hard, hence never end up hearing noises like these ones.  Second, if that civic was taken to the track it would probably have an intake, a loud fart can exhaust, and possibly a turbo and other things that would cause you to hear those sound elements over the tires screeching.

So, in the end I still think it's a little too loud, but not much, when you consider for a moment that taking real tires and beating on them like this really does make a FUCKING LOUD noise that alerts drivers and cops from far and wide that there is a "crazy driver" nearby

In my stock car, pushing the tires makes it the loudest aspect of the noise profile, even from within the car.

just my .02

[EX_stream_tuna]

I've noticed that in GT6 the Comfort tires definitely have the most pronounced (read obnoxiously loud) squealing but Sports and Racing are both less voluminous and my more bearable

Exactly my experience too...  I feel like the enormous squeal from the comforts is just representative of the fact that they weren't really made for what we're doing to them.

Kind of like a girl screaming rape or something!  (not that I know what that sounds like)

[Feldynn]

Rick, have you tried staggering tire compounds to produce a more realistically accurate sensation for the power oversteer?  I seem to remember Gar or someone posting on the PSN forum quite a while back about how the tires in GT5 provided more realistic handling when you had good tires at the front and less good ones at the back, I wonder if that still holds true for GT6 and say having Sports Soft on the front and Sports Hard on the rear might give a more accurate feeling?


Ex, something else I've been thinking about regarding the tire squeal noise is that it might not actually be the noise of the tires that's the problem and more so PD's audio balancing mechanics.  I've been getting some of the same old sound glitches we had in GT5 like where as you get close to another car your engine sound fades out, running some career races at Rome last night I also found that different road texture noise was causing the same issue.  Switching from asphalt to cobbles meant a different road noise was being used and suddenly the engine sound was fading out, coming off cobbles and magically the engine started getting louder again so I wonder what we're experiencing is actually some sort of audio playback bug.

[EX_stream_tuna]

no doubt, they have some sound mixing, and glitching issues to fix, so there's a good chance they'll re-balance some things when that work is done.

And yes, it was Gar who made the comments about using different tire compounds to achieve a realistic handling profile.

He talked about the difference between lateral grip vs forward grip.

Haven't seen him post in a while... said his ps3 died.  Hopefully someoen got him a new one   It would be nice to see if he thinks any of his observations turned out to be addressed in "6".

[RickS95]

Rick, have you tried staggering tire compounds to produce a more realistically accurate sensation for the power oversteer?  I seem to remember Gar or someone posting on the PSN forum quite a while back about how the tires in GT5 provided more realistic handling when you had good tires at the front and less good ones at the back, I wonder if that still holds true for GT6 and say having Sports Soft on the front and Sports Hard on the rear might give a more accurate feeling?


Ex, something else I've been thinking about regarding the tire squeal noise is that it might not actually be the noise of the tires that's the problem and more so PD's audio balancing mechanics.  I've been getting some of the same old sound glitches we had in GT5 like where as you get close to another car your engine sound fades out, running some career races at Rome last night I also found that different road texture noise was causing the same issue.  Switching from asphalt to cobbles meant a different road noise was being used and suddenly the engine sound was fading out, coming off cobbles and magically the engine started getting louder again so I wonder what we're experiencing is actually some sort of audio playback bug.

That's probably not a bad idea, Feldynn.  The tires on my real car are actually staggered with 265s up front and 295s in the rear.  That might just do the trick.

[MX5#98]

Regarding tire squeal, this isn't my best video, but very quickly you can hear the tires:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR0tr-TEOk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaR0tr-TEOk

[RoninTuna]

I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage.  After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible.  I took it out for one of the International B series events.  

I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft.  In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.  

The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life.  That said, it was still fairly close.  In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing.  In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking.  However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.

Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06.  I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much.  That's not realistic.  On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy.  Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out.  In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.

Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure.  So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.

Somehow I am under the impression you did not put mid to low shelf tires from wall mart on the car IRL......That said I'm under the impression this was one of those goes without saying things


Did you remove the rear toe that PD cramms into everything specifically to reduce that effect for "playability"?


I did with the 78 TA, With the rest of the settings matched up to what PD says are factory and the rear toe reduced the car behaves verymuch like my friends 81 TA did, including but nit limited to stomping embarrassment...or what we called fun back then

[EX_stream_tuna]

that's a good point about the toe... I thought about mentioning it, but then some brain cells died...

[EX_stream_tuna]

Drove a stock 2006 S2000 last night (in GT), and I must say the handling of it in GT6 is way WAY better than how it was portrayed in GT5.  Much less tail happy and driveable (though not to say it wouldn't bite you in the ass if you did something stupid).  In my opinion the handling is considerably closer to real life.  However, I'm puzzled by their inaccuracies in other areas.  1) the redline is 500rpm too high (FC22 has a hard fuel cut at 8100rpm in real life).  2) the gear ratios are also way off (and would be even if the redline wasn't overly high); they are too short. 

Furthermore, why can't Gran Turismo properly (and by properly I mean...at all) model the sound of VTEC engagement!??!?!?     It's an easy thing to do, and would be applicable for over 25 Honda/Acura models.  WTF Kaz.

a thought... is the one in GT a JDM model that might have some small differences like the ones you've noted?  The gear ratios are something that are never right on my Evo comparisons, because all of them in-game are 6speeds where the US market had mostly 5speeds... (which yes it does suck on the highway for that reason, unless you like a lot of noise and wasting gas)

[RickS95]

I finally got around to buying the same car in the game that I've got in the garage.  After changing the oil, the horsepower and torque figures were a bit lower than my car, but negligible.  I took it out for one of the International B series events.  

I can't remember if the car came with sports hard or sports soft tires, but I believe it was sports soft.  In driving a thousand miles over the past few days it seems the comfort tires are simply shit and the sports tires are more realistic.  

The car in the game handled well-ish, but still not quite as good as the car in real life.  That said, it was still fairly close.  In real life I can typically take an on ramp at about 50-100% more than the posted speed limit, at which point I run out of balls because wrecking my car isn't something I'm interested in doing.  In the game, the car still has a slight push at speeds that were surprisingly low for the particularly turns I was taking.  However, given that they have 1200 cars and 70 track layouts to match together, on top of 9 or whatever different tire compounds, perfection is really asking too much.

Where they missed the mark the most is with the power oversteer, it's non-existent even in the 2000 Z06.  I was racing the long course at Brands Hatch and not once can I remember burying the throttle too much.  That's not realistic.  On the real car, with all aids turned off, it's very tail happy.  Turning at a normal intersection in third gear and applying anything approaching half throttle brings the rear end out.  In the game, coming out of a tight turn close to a hairpin and dropping the hammer resulted in nothing embarrassing.

Again, I think asking a company to be able to match closely the results of 1200 cars on 70 tracks on 9 different tire compounds is setting them up for failure.  So, I'm going to try to stop complaining about the physics of the game as I feel it's impossible to get every car right for every situation.

Somehow I am under the impression you did not put mid to low shelf tires from wall mart on the car IRL......That said I'm under the impression this was one of those goes without saying things


Did you remove the rear toe that PD cramms into everything specifically to reduce that effect for "playability"?


I did with the 78 TA, With the rest of the settings matched up to what PD says are factory and the rear toe reduced the car behaves verymuch like my friends 81 TA did, including but nit limited to stomping embarrassment...or what we called fun back then

That's another good point Ronin.  I've only modded one car with suspension so far.  The game doesn't pay too well so far so I'm saving my dollars.  But that might be an issue I need to address.