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[Wiz]

Looks like F1 is going to start sending out cease and desist notices to the big sites with F1 mods...  http://www.virtualr.net/no-more-formula-one-modding-content-on-virtualr

Virtualr is the first one I've seen, but I can only assume the others aren't far behind.  

Get em while you can!

[EX_stream_tuna]

wait wait wait... if someone privately reproduces an F1 look a like, even if it uses branding, that should not be an issue unless they charge money for it.

sounds like they are being heavy-handed and might loose in court if it gets that far.  I'd also say that it wouldn't be that hard for a website owner to get a lawyer to review the "request" for the cease and desist, and decide whether they needed to comply or not.  Just sounds like that owner got scared by a bully, IMO.

But yea, better grab the mods while you can either way

[GoesTuna11]

wait wait wait... if someone privately reproduces an F1 look a like, even if it uses branding, that should not be an issue unless they charge money for it.

sounds like they are being heavy-handed and might loose in court if it gets that far.  I'd also say that it wouldn't be that hard for a website owner to get a lawyer to review the "request" for the cease and desist, and decide whether they needed to comply or not.  Just sounds like that owner got scared by a bully, IMO.

But yea, better grab the mods while you can either way

No, you can not use another person's or company's trademarks or copyrights without their permission unless what you are doing qualifies as fair use which a mod doesn't.  It doesn't matter that you are not charging money.

[Wiz]

I have a hunch that Codemasters has more to do with this than F1 does.

[EX_stream_tuna]

wait wait wait... if someone privately reproduces an F1 look a like, even if it uses branding, that should not be an issue unless they charge money for it.

sounds like they are being heavy-handed and might loose in court if it gets that far.  I'd also say that it wouldn't be that hard for a website owner to get a lawyer to review the "request" for the cease and desist, and decide whether they needed to comply or not.  Just sounds like that owner got scared by a bully, IMO.

But yea, better grab the mods while you can either way

No, you can not use another person's or company's trademarks or copyrights without their permission unless what you are doing qualifies as fair use which a mod doesn't.  It doesn't matter that you are not charging money.

I very respectfully disagree...

artists can paint anything they want and just putting a painting of an F1 car on your wall doesn't constitute intellectual property theft.  You have to try to sell it first.  I don't see why this would be any different.

also, this game probably wouldn't have gotten very far into developement...

www.stexcalibur.info

[GoesTuna11]

wait wait wait... if someone privately reproduces an F1 look a like, even if it uses branding, that should not be an issue unless they charge money for it.

sounds like they are being heavy-handed and might loose in court if it gets that far.  I'd also say that it wouldn't be that hard for a website owner to get a lawyer to review the "request" for the cease and desist, and decide whether they needed to comply or not.  Just sounds like that owner got scared by a bully, IMO.

But yea, better grab the mods while you can either way

No, you can not use another person's or company's trademarks or copyrights without their permission unless what you are doing qualifies as fair use which a mod doesn't.  It doesn't matter that you are not charging money.

I very respectfully disagree...

artists can paint anything they want and just putting a painting of an F1 car on your wall doesn't constitute intellectual property theft.  You have to try to sell it first.  I don't see why this would be any different.

also, this game probably wouldn't have gotten very far into developement...

www.stexcalibur.info

You can disagree all you want but you are wrong.

[BakedTuna]

wait wait wait... if someone privately reproduces an F1 look a like, even if it uses branding, that should not be an issue unless they charge money for it.

sounds like they are being heavy-handed and might loose in court if it gets that far.  I'd also say that it wouldn't be that hard for a website owner to get a lawyer to review the "request" for the cease and desist, and decide whether they needed to comply or not.  Just sounds like that owner got scared by a bully, IMO.

But yea, better grab the mods while you can either way

No, you can not use another person's or company's trademarks or copyrights without their permission unless what you are doing qualifies as fair use which a mod doesn't.  It doesn't matter that you are not charging money.

I very respectfully disagree...

artists can paint anything they want and just putting a painting of an F1 car on your wall doesn't constitute intellectual property theft.  You have to try to sell it first.  I don't see why this would be any different.

also, this game probably wouldn't have gotten very far into developement...

www.stexcalibur.info

You can disagree all you want but you are wrong.

If I am getting this right they have F1 cars in the game that in some peoples case they have taken to modding them somehow or they are just producing knockoffs of the actual cars? If these can be shared whether or not it included a financial gain for one party or another would likely not matter. I could very easily  see it being an issue that all companies involved would try to avoid for their own reasons.

[Wiz]

Where is the line?

That's the million dollar question in my mind.

If these modding groups had simply changed a few minor things in regards to the design of the cars, and called them Z1 mods, would this still be happening?  How much would they need to change in order for them to circumvent any copyright?

Also, wouldn't it make more sense if Ferrari or Lotus or Marussia were the ones making a stink?  Does F1 actually "own" the copyright of a car that was made by any of those companies?

I would like to see the specifics of this cease and desist myself.  What exactly are the violations?  Is it the design of the cars?  Naming?  Maybe sponsorship/liveries?

To me it's somewhat similar to something we've discussed before... made up track names.  If SMS doesn't get the Nurburgring license, can they still put the track in the game if they call it Eifelwald?

Where is the line?

[GoesTuna11]

Where is the line?

That's the million dollar question in my mind.

If these modding groups had simply changed a few minor things in regards to the design of the cars, and called them Z1 mods, would this still be happening?  How much would they need to change in order for them to circumvent any copyright?

I think that the only real way to tell the line is if it is decided in court.  Using the F1 trademark or any of the other team trademarks, or sponsors trademarks is a definite no no.  The paint schemes on all the cars is copyright as is apparently the design of the car.  I think that rF2 and GSCE probably give you a good idea of what you can get away with.  rF2 uses the term Formula Masters and GSCE uses things like Formula Extreme and Formula Retro.  Team names and colour schemes are similar to the real life teams.

Also, wouldn't it make more sense if Ferrari or Lotus or Marussia were the ones making a stink?  Does F1 actually "own" the copyright of a car that was made by any of those companies?

As I understand it, F1 has agreements with the teams on how that stuff works.  Without knowing the details it's speculation.  People were saying that Ferrari had a special deal that allowed them to license their car as they saw fit but Marussia has licensed their car to rF2 and Lotus I think to xbox so I don't know.

To me it's somewhat similar to something we've discussed before... made up track names.  If SMS doesn't get the Nurburgring license, can they still put the track in the game if they call it Eifelwald?

Where is the line?

Ferrari Challenge didn't have licenses for a couple of tracks including Montreal.  They instead published the game with the name Redwood Park.  I would have thought that since the design of cars is copyrightable, that the design of a track would be as well.  Maybe it's just too easy to make the track different enough by leaving out non essential stuff.  For example, the FC Montreal doesn't have the casino.  I don't know.

Also remember, what is legal and what companies allow can be different things.  Companies may let things slide if they think that it gives them an advantage.  They can also attack legal things if that gives them an advantage.

[Wiz]

Good input, Doc.  Thanks.

Side note:  Rereading my OP and title, I probably made it sound more doomsdayish than it really is.  There will always be plenty of "underground" sites that you'll be able to find F1 mods at.  I just think it's interesting to see where this will end up, is all.

I see myself moving more towards PC sims in the near future (more than I already have), so it's a topic that I'll be keeping an eye on, for sure.