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[CharlieTuna]

Yep.  I thinl that many words requires that a consise synopsis be provided for Dude...

:rulez

[Feldynn]

Yep.  I thinl that many words requires that a consise synopsis be provided for Dude...

Oooh, I think I can do it Bullet-Style!

• I think "Performance Points" is a flawed system as it only seems to count power and weight.
• "Performance" should include handling, cornering, acceleration and stuff too to better balance cars.
• If adding parts makes a car better (by fixed settings or user adjustments) it should count to the overall Performance.
• Let's not get started on tires!
• The whole thing needs to be revamped, cars given more accurate PP numbers.
• I use too many words!

Tada?

[Turbo-Tuna]

Oooh, I think I can do it Bullet-Style!

• I think "Performance Points" is a flawed system as it only seems to count power and weight.
• "Performance" should include handling, cornering, acceleration and stuff too to better balance cars.
• If adding parts makes a car better (by fixed settings or user adjustments) it should count to the overall Performance.
• Let's not get started on tires!
• The whole thing needs to be revamped, cars given more accurate PP numbers.
• I use too many words!

Tada?

Well done. I think any upgrades should affect PP rating, as they are upgrades. They should be small fixed amounts due to the skill aspect of tuning cars though. This should apply to LSD and other drive train parts, trannies, suspension and gearing. That's my twisted thoughts.

[DudeTuna]

I gort it thank you 

[JoshTuna]

Somethin to take on the Veyron?

Ugh, I've seen this thing elsewhere. I love the CTS-V (sedan). But for them to call it a Veyron challenger is just plain dumb.

The Veyron is one of the most over-engineered cars ever built. They didn't take some V-Dub and strap some turbos on it.

If these two cars lined up side by side for a 5-mile drag race or whatever, at the drop of the green flag, the Bugatti owner would have to get out, check his tire pressures and then turn the key that allows for top speed. The car would hunker down and take off.

And after about 1 mile, he would roar past this Cadillac, which is sitting on the side of the road smoking with pieces of its splintered transmission, rear end, and driveshaft littering the road.

Cool novelty car to impress your friends. Not a Veyron challenger. And I bet more of them end up broken than working.

/rant.

That may be....But there is still only the two 1000+ HP capable cars in the game that have little to nothing to do. The Bugatti and the TVR are not racecars and lack handling characteristics to be able to compete with race cars. At the same time they sure as hell are not fair to pit against other production cars, Why not add another car to the list of ridiculous beasts? Give us a reason or at least a more valid excuse to take them out and play with them?

.   I beg to differ with this ronin as I have a bright yellow tvr speed 12 that laps dela sarthe in 3.23 charlie and fisherrat have seen this car in action too

[RoninTuna]

Somethin to take on the Veyron?

Ugh, I've seen this thing elsewhere. I love the CTS-V (sedan). But for them to call it a Veyron challenger is just plain dumb.

The Veyron is one of the most over-engineered cars ever built. They didn't take some V-Dub and strap some turbos on it.

If these two cars lined up side by side for a 5-mile drag race or whatever, at the drop of the green flag, the Bugatti owner would have to get out, check his tire pressures and then turn the key that allows for top speed. The car would hunker down and take off.

And after about 1 mile, he would roar past this Cadillac, which is sitting on the side of the road smoking with pieces of its splintered transmission, rear end, and driveshaft littering the road.

Cool novelty car to impress your friends. Not a Veyron challenger. And I bet more of them end up broken than working.

/rant.

That may be....But there is still only the two 1000+ HP capable cars in the game that have little to nothing to do. The Bugatti and the TVR are not racecars and lack handling characteristics to be able to compete with race cars. At the same time they sure as hell are not fair to pit against other production cars, Why not add another car to the list of ridiculous beasts? Give us a reason or at least a more valid excuse to take them out and play with them?

.   I beg to differ with this ronin as I have a bright yellow tvr speed 12 that laps dela sarthe in 3.23 charlie and fisherrat have seen this car in action too

I've seen it in action too, but just because one can run it fast does not mean it has the handling characteristics to be able to compete with race cars. I guarantee you, that if you take that car out and try to compete with race cars you will find it has significant short comings in handling that will result in strong disadvantages in tire and fuel longevity. Short sprint races they may hold their own but in the long haul they will fail.

All right, here is what I want you to do so you can experience what I am talking about the difference between tuned production cars and race cars.

Get two of the Cappuccino (EA21R) '95. RM one of them. Tune both to the hilt and match the settings between the two, Power, weight, suspension, everything you can make the same. Then drive the two cars for long stints with the same number of laps say fifteen to twenty laps back to back. Note the difference in the way the car feels and the difference in lap times, lap time consistency, tire ware and fuel consumption. After that I want you to take the Jaguar XJ220 and the Jaguar XJ220 LM Race Car and do the same. That difference should become clear as day to you after this then you will truly understand what I was getting at with that.

[DudeTuna]

If we have to have more cars, then fine that is a nice one.

[RickS95]

Oooh, I think I can do it Bullet-Style!

• I think "Performance Points" is a flawed system as it only seems to count power and weight.
• "Performance" should include handling, cornering, acceleration and stuff too to better balance cars.
• If adding parts makes a car better (by fixed settings or user adjustments) it should count to the overall Performance.
• Let's not get started on tires!
• The whole thing needs to be revamped, cars given more accurate PP numbers.
• I use too many words!

Tada?

Well done. I think any upgrades should affect PP rating, as they are upgrades. They should be small fixed amounts due to the skill aspect of tuning cars though. This should apply to LSD and other drive train parts, trannies, suspension and gearing. That's my twisted thoughts.

I agree with Turbo.  Any changes should affect PP. 

[GoesTuna11]

Oooh, I think I can do it Bullet-Style!

• I think "Performance Points" is a flawed system as it only seems to count power and weight.
• "Performance" should include handling, cornering, acceleration and stuff too to better balance cars.
• If adding parts makes a car better (by fixed settings or user adjustments) it should count to the overall Performance.
• Let's not get started on tires!
• The whole thing needs to be revamped, cars given more accurate PP numbers.
• I use too many words!

Tada?

Well done. I think any upgrades should affect PP rating, as they are upgrades. They should be small fixed amounts due to the skill aspect of tuning cars though. This should apply to LSD and other drive train parts, trannies, suspension and gearing. That's my twisted thoughts.

I agree with Turbo.  Any changes should affect PP. 

The problem is, it would be pretty well impossible to do a fair pp system.  Lets say they fixed the aero resistance in new update.  Theoretically it will be beneficial to have less aero on some tracks especially ones with long straights.  So then you have to have a track specific pp.  Some parts will affect how good other parts are.  One tranny setup may be better with certain engine upgrades than others.  Weather will affect pp.  whether you are running in traffic or not will affect pp.  So you have 1000+ cars times 70+ variations on tracks times how many tire combos times how many weather variations times how many aero setting times how many transmission settings times how many suspension settings and so on and so on.

[Turbo-Tuna]

So unless the PP system  is variable based on EVERY parameter available, which is, to me, incredibly complicated, it is guaranteed to be flawed.

Without expecting perfection, I'll say that it should be better than it is, and take into account a few more variables.

[GoesTuna11]

So unless the PP system  is variable based on EVERY parameter available, which is, to me, incredibly complicated, it is guaranteed to be flawed.

Without expecting perfection, I'll say that it should be better than it is, and take into account a few more variables.

While I agree with you in principle, I have the suspicion that adding a few more variables would not make it any better.  The amount of testing that would be needed would be enormous even if they just added a couple.  I think that it might be better if they put together a few classes of cars such as GT500, GT300, DTM etc and made sure that those classes were in fact balanced AND also give us the ability to handicap certain cars so that we can balance cars ourselves.  They've made a start by allowing us to select certain classes but cars within those classes are often not balanced (such as the Garaiya in the GT300 cars).  Official iRacing races usually don't even try to balance the cars and just run different cars as different classes.  Even in real life balancing a small number of cars is very difficult. 

The advantage of having balanced classes is that racers can make tuning decisions without worrying about pp.  Aero would be adjusted based on resistance vs. downforce, tires chosen based on wear vs grip, suspension and transmission tuned based on track characteristics and driving style.

[TunahCroonah]

 

[RickS95]

The ability to change a car's set up should affect PP.  Whether or not the driver is smart enough to use the enhanced parts should be irrelevant.  When I add aero to a car, it should jump the PP some number.  That part may be beneficial or detrimental, but the fact remains, I can control the characteristics of the car and thus my PP should be higher. 

[JoshTuna]

Somethin to take on the Veyron?

Ugh, I've seen this thing elsewhere. I love the CTS-V (sedan). But for them to call it a Veyron challenger is just plain dumb.

The Veyron is one of the most over-engineered cars ever built. They didn't take some V-Dub and strap some turbos on it.

If these two cars lined up side by side for a 5-mile drag race or whatever, at the drop of the green flag, the Bugatti owner would have to get out, check his tire pressures and then turn the key that allows for top speed. The car would hunker down and take off.

And after about 1 mile, he would roar past this Cadillac, which is sitting on the side of the road smoking with pieces of its splintered transmission, rear end, and driveshaft littering the road.

Cool novelty car to impress your friends. Not a Veyron challenger. And I bet more of them end up broken than working.

/rant.

That may be....But there is still only the two 1000+ HP capable cars in the game that have little to nothing to do. The Bugatti and the TVR are not racecars and lack handling characteristics to be able to compete with race cars. At the same time they sure as hell are not fair to pit against other production cars, Why not add another car to the list of ridiculous beasts? Give us a reason or at least a more valid excuse to take them out and play with them?

.   I beg to differ with this ronin as I have a bright yellow tvr speed 12 that laps dela sarthe in 3.23 charlie and fisherrat have seen this car in action too

I've seen it in action too, but just because one can run it fast does not mean it has the handling characteristics to be able to compete with race cars. I guarantee you, that if you take that car out and try to compete with race cars you will find it has significant short comings in handling that will result in strong disadvantages in tire and fuel longevity. Short sprint races they may hold their own but in the long haul they will fail.

All right, here is what I want you to do so you can experience what I am talking about the difference between tuned production cars and race cars.

Get two of the Cappuccino (EA21R) '95. RM one of them. Tune both to the hilt and match the settings between the two, Power, weight, suspension, everything you can make the same. Then drive the two cars for long stints with the same number of laps say fifteen to twenty laps back to back. Note the difference in the way the car feels and the difference in lap times, lap time consistency, tire ware and fuel consumption. After that I want you to take the Jaguar XJ220 and the Jaguar XJ220 LM Race Car and do the same. That difference should become clear as day to you after this then you will truly understand what I was getting at with that.

wow i can reaaly see the diffrence in what you mean ronin and i see what you meant by what you said and it seems weird that otwo cars that are effectively the same can be so different

[EX_stream_tuna]

The ability to change a car's set up should affect PP.  Whether or not the driver is smart enough to use the enhanced parts should be irrelevant.  When I add aero to a car, it should jump the PP some number.  That part may be beneficial or detrimental, but the fact remains, I can control the characteristics of the car and thus my PP should be higher. 

I think someone suggested a few pages ago (feldynn maybe?) that some parts should affect PP, but not necessarily very much.

I'd be okay with adding a single-disc clutch upgrade putting PP up by 1.  Racing twin-disc PP +2.

And yes, I do now see why adding a fully adjustable Suspension should at least bump up your PP by a couple points, because some testing I did early on in GT5's life proved that simply adding it lowers your car by default.  Sometimes a LOT.  Even if you have the ride height set at 0/0, it's already lower.

I took pictures from the exact same vantage point and it was obviuos by zooming in on teh wheel wells that this was the case.

But after adjusting it, I would not want to see PP increase more..  Just fixing the part to the car and having it be like +4 PP or something like that, would be okay w/ me.

However, this presents a problem for the addition of teh adjustable LSD because it does not automatically change the car's LSD when it is added.  It simply oopens up the adjustment of it.  Some cars do not have an LSD until you add one, so in those cases pershaps the PP should rise by a couople points.  In other cases, I would not want it to.